6 Things I Hate About Love Hina . . .

[omorka]

As my long-term readers know, memeslayer and I have been 'round the horn a couple of times about several anime shows that he likes and that I can't stand. Love Hina is the prototypical example. Oh, I can list reams and reams of things in that particular show that I'm offended by - the stereotypical views of men and women, the casual violence, the implicit racism of the Kaolla Su character, etc., etc., etc. And I can do the same for a large number of other shows I can't stand. However, while discussing with the Spouse why I wasn't thrilled with the episode of an old (late 1980s) anime that wileras brought over tonight, I finally found a connecting thread for a large number (not all, but many) anime I can't stand.

If the main character is all of:

male

clumsy (either socially or physically, but usually both)

clueless

stupid (and I'm fairly harsh about what I consider stupid)

And the show is both:

shonen

either a romance or action with a strong romantic subplot

Then it has to have seriously badass plot, world, and character development or I'm simply not interested.

Unfortunately, this seems to link in with what Memeslayer was saying while he was here about the "audience identification character." Said AIC appears to have to be at least three of male, clumsy, clueless, and stupid.

Interestingly, if the main character is clumsy, clueless, and stupid, but female, it doesn't bother me - see also Fruits Basket and Maho Tsukai Tai!. Also, male, clumsy, and clueless are not sufficient to ruin a show for me if the character shows some intelligence; see RahXephon (although he's only socially clumsy, not so much physically). Even being a harem anime is not enough by itself - but the hero character for almost all harem shows meets the above definition.

Why? Not sure, although it has something to do with whether I can manage to root for a character (not identify with them - that doesn't happen very often - but care what the hell happens to them in the course of the show). Having characters I care about is a big issue for me for any show, anime or not. (I can't watch Azumanga Daioh because there's no plot at all, the world's not interesting, and I don't care about any of the characters, despite it not fitting the above formula.) The prototypical AIC is a character I want to flunk out of my class, not root for; in fact, on some level, I want to warn the female objects of the AIC's attention that he's likely to turn abusive later in the relationship. (That female character tend to slap the AIC a lot doesn't help - for me, it means the relationship is already violent and therefore something for both participants to run from, not something for the show to celebrate.)

So, thus my preference for shojo if the show's a romance. Note that if there's not a strong romantic plot or subplot, the above doesn't matter that much; I can watch and enjoy shonen action or drama without the above getting in the way, although having non-stupid, non-clueless characters helps.

The other thing that makes me hate a show is random visual crap. Between that and the above, my very low opinion of FLCL should surprise no one . . .

Comments

[memeslayer.livejournal.com]

If he's still that clueless, then he's clearly not even trying; on some level, he doesn't care who he hurts, and that's a sign of sociopathy.

Or he's the sort of person to whom social interaction and interpersonal understanding don't come naturally at all, and thus has an ingrained tendency to not notice he's screwing up until it's too late. Like, say, me. :-p I would also point out that AICs usually have very few friends, which doesn't help.

(They're also supposed to be comic exaggerations, which are inherently creepy if you take them seriously, but you probably knew that.)

Let me give an example: almost every one of these characters clearly thinks the universe owes him a girlfriend. That he might have to work at getting a girlfriend by actively doing nice things, rather than simply standing around and being male and a "nice guy," doesn't seem to occur to him; that women are people and not objects doesn't seem to occur to him.

Weaker versions of these views not uncommon in real life among older males who have never had a girlfriend. Having a girlfriend is something that's expected to happen to you. Never having had one (once you're old enough) is seen as a character flaw, and in fact is commonly used as an insult. So it's not really "the universe owes me a girlfriend", it's more like "I'm not a bad person, why am I being punished like this?" (too strong a phrasing, but you get the idea). Not a reasonable or healthy view by any stretch of the imagination, but pretty true to life.

Standing around waiting for a girlfriend to fall into your lap is also not uncommon -- in fact, it's what I spent the last decade doing. The part where it actually works is the wish fulfillment. Again, not reasonable, but true to life.

If you've never had one, a "girlfriend" tends to become more a mythical object than a person. But that's not uncommon at all. People also talk about wanting a "job", a "husband", a "house", or a "car" in much the same way.

All of the above, at least in my case, went away after I actually got a girlfriend. I think that in and of themselves they're pretty harmless, but I can see how they would turn you off.

[omorka.livejournal.com]

Yeah, given that I associate these sorts of attitudes with abusers, thinking of them as "harmless" isn't really an option for me. Granted that many guys manage to have those attitudes and not descend to abuse, and do eventually outgrow them, but I'm not convinced that they're the rule and not the exception. That core sense of entitlement is, I think, very, very dangerous.

At any rate, whether glorifying those attitudes or allowing them to work to the point of delivering you the perfect robot/goddess/witch/alien girlfriend in fiction is actively harmful or not, it clearly makes me Not The Target Audience for the anime in question, at the very least.

[memeslayer.livejournal.com]

That core sense of entitlement is, I think, very, very dangerous.

I see what you're getting at, but I really don't think "entitlement" is the right concept. It's a societal expectation that in order for a male to be a decent well-rounded human being he has to have or be able to "get" a girlfriend, just like he has to have a job. Not that that's much healthier...

...it clearly makes me Not The Target Audience for the anime in question, at the very least.

This was never in doubt. You are female, after all. :-p

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

You might be interested in reading this post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/starcat_jewel/143391.html) of mine from a few months ago; if you read it, please also read the two posts linked from the first paragraph.

If you're female and much over age 25, there's a significant chance that those attitudes in a man will indeed be very off-putting, for precisely the reason omorka indicates: you'll have encountered them too many times in men who later proved to be abusive to yourself or others. After a while, one starts reading it as a "marker trait", whether that's 100% accurate or not.