Askers vs. Guessers

[omorka]

Via black_rider: Ask culture vs. Guess culture (ignore the sensationalist headline, just read the article).

I would put forth that I suspect some of it is temperament and cognitive style, too. In particular, I would guess that Askers tend to be extroverts, and Guessers introverts, if for no other reason than an introvert has likely (not invariably) modeled the other person's response before speaking, while extroverts often (not always) either lack that skill entirely or only use it on special occasions.

A nuance that appears to be missing from the article is that if a Guesser is reduced to asking, not only do they think there's a reasonable chance of a "yes," but they need (or at least strongly want) a "yes" answer - they wouldn't be putting themselves through the ordeal of asking if it weren't important. An Asker receiving such a request may not understand this (especially if their internal model of the other person isn't very good; see above), and treat it as if it were a request from another Asker, which does not come with importance markers. Conversely, an Asker may well ask a trivial favor from a Guesser, who may well respond to it as if it were of higher importance than it is - and feel let down, or even betrayed, to find that the Asker thought it a small thing.

In case anyone was wondering, I fall on the Guesser end of the scale but do "desperation Asking" - if the situation is dire enough, I will beg from anyone who will listen. Or, to quote a wise man, "I guess it's time to call Dad."

Comments

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

FYI, I am absolutely an Asker; Guess behavior comes across to me as either passive-aggressive (my father) or nastily manipulative (various other people). And you would be amazed at how oblivious I can be to Guesser Hinting; I would tell you the story of the XRFH and the snowstorm, except that I suspect you wouldn't find it nearly as funny as I do.

[omorka.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that you and laughingrat both responded to this as if the opposite style were somehow an attack on you. One of the points of the article, as I read it, was that it isn't - that it's a social style, like being introverted or extroverted, and neither way is wrong. And it seems to me that the world is easier to navigate for Askers, since they have that ability - I really want to say 'privilege' - to simply be oblivious.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

I think it's more that we respond to the opposite style as if the other person means what WE would mean by using it. Just as I sometimes hear someone else's dry humor as nasty snark (highly dependent on phrasing) because I know that's what I'd mean by X if I said it.

Secondary thought

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Trying to deal with someone who Hints is often a lot like being out with a guy who keeps non-verbally pushing for sex. He won't ask for it because then you might say no, but he thinks that if he just keeps shoving his way across your boundaries a little at a time and NEVER LETS UP, eventually you'll give in. Hinters are like that; if you try to ignore the Hints, they don't get the message, they just keep Hinting harder and harder. And then eventually they get mad at YOU for not volunteering like you're supposed to do when someone Hints at you. Worse yet, if you actually respond to the Hints by saying no, then they get all huffy because it's not like they were ASKING you.

Deal with lose/lose situations like that long enough, and I guess you do start seeing that approach as an attack, because you know how it's going to end.

[laughingrat.livejournal.com]

I saw that too and drew similar conclusions about Askers being extroverts (or, as I prefer to call them, uncivilized :-P). I also noticed that predictably, the article was strongly biased towards Askers/extroverts, with the emphasis being on how the Guessers/introverts should change to understand or accommodate them. Our cultural bias towards extroverts is nothing new, but for once I'd like to see an article about this that says, "Hey loudmouth! Do you know why your co-workers cringe and shrink away from you? Maybe they have different boundaries! Try being more sensitive for once!"

Yeah, not gonna happen, not in this culture.

[omorka.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that you and starcat_jewel both responded to this as if the opposite style were somehow an attack on you. One of the points of the article, as I read it, was that it isn't - that it's a social style, like being introverted or extroverted, and neither way is wrong. And I'm a little bit disturbed by your assertion that extroverts are 'uncivilized' - it's not something they have a choice about, any more than you or I have a choice about our introversion. Telling someone to "be more sensitive" is exactly as useless as one of them telling us to "grow a thicker skin" - it's a nonsensical statement, and hurtful, either way.

As for the article, I saw it as giving advice to Guessers mostly because we're the ones whose motives aren't transparent. Us providing more information adds more to the system than an Asker providing less. Not fair, exactly, but it seems wrong to me to ask someone else to essentially closet themselves, even on a relatively trivial issue like this one.

[laughingrat.livejournal.com]

It's more painful for Guessers to deal with Askers, and Askers are on the top of the social pile. Another reason advice is usually offered to introverts/Guessers rather than to Askers is because, on some level, the author knows that extroverts aren't under much pressure to change their behavior, but introverts are. This article starts promisingly, but ends along fairly standard lines in that regard.

[laughingrat.livejournal.com]

It's more painful for Guessers to deal with Askers, and Askers are on the top of the social pile. Another reason advice is usually offered to introverts/Guessers rather than to Askers is because, on some level, the author knows that extroverts aren't under much pressure to change their behavior, but introverts are. This article starts promisingly, but ends along fairly standard lines in that regard.

Our responses were not the same. I am referring to this within a broader social context; Starcat_Jewel, who also took my reply as a personal attack as I can see from the comment below, which she was probably emboldened to make because you singled me out for criticism even though my comment was much less reactionary and personal, was making inferences based on personal emotional reactions alone.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Nice speculation, except that I'm an Introvert with a VERY strong sense of personal boundaries. My current hypothesis, backed by only a hunch, is that it might have something to do with the T/F split.

[laughingrat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but you also referred to it in the context of abusive manipulative behavior you've had to deal with; manipulation is not the same as being civilized, considerate, or introverted.

I also don't remember making any speculations about you, but then, dogpiling on me over here is like a fucking team sport.

[waterlilly.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I'm always looking for maps to help me deal with the desperately extroverted. If I ask someone a question like, "Can we stay at your house?" it's because I already know the answer is yes. It's someone I know well, and the offer was previously made, and I know what they're going to say.

I'm occasionally taken aback by similar requests from people who I don't think know us well enough to expect that yes. Somehow it didn't occur to me that they might be expecting a no, but asked anyway.

[omorka.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there's an element of risk-aversion vs. risk-seeking at play here? A Guesser would be playing the risk-averse strategy, as you describe, while an Asker would be willing to gamble a little bit of goodwill against a reasonably large potential payoff.

[pinesandmaples]

A number of my residents were Guessers. I learned the following:

I'm a little bit erratic, and certain of my behavior patterns are wildly complicated (but they are patterns) which makes it hard for Guessers to get some things out of me. It pisses me off wildly when Guessers don't get the pattern then get really upset with me for messing them up. It is not my fault that you did not guess right so stop blaming me for your poor guess. Rar!

[omorka.livejournal.com]

And here it is again - that sense that the opposite style is somehow an attack on you. It's really disturbing me that three out of the four responses all went there. Is it so very hard to just accept that other people are different? And, if you know that they're guessing and that the patterns are complex, why would you be angry when they express disappointment that they got it wrong? Wouldn't providing them with a push in the right direction make things easier on everyone?

[pinesandmaples]

In my case, my residents went to my boss and filed a formal bitching complaint. I consider that an attack. (My boss told them that they were full of it and not to waste her time in future.)

[northwall.livejournal.com]

i thought it was a fascinating article, and i hope more gets written about it. in combination with Ury's Getting to Yes, this is powerful stuff.

i am a pretty strong introvert/guesser, but i don't remember blaming askers for the agony... i blame myself. which i suppose is a result of the cultural conditioning that we should all be askers. ah well. thanks for an interesting read.

[art-of-cynicism.livejournal.com]

What an interesting article, but reading these types of things and applying them in a personal context is always odd for me. Just like with everything else I read about personalities types and social structures, I (can) walk on both sides of the situation.

There are times when I'm completely a Guesser and I find it rude and unconscionable that someone would just come out and ask that. But other times I am utterly an Asker (blunt to the point of obliviousness) and champion it in others.

Just like with everything else, I'm only consistent in that I'm inconsistent. That's probably why I find this type of thing simultaneously fascinating and irritating.

[bkwrrm-tx.livejournal.com]

I'm very much a Guesser. It's hard, because I always feel that I'm not good enough to ask for something, let alone get it.

Of course, then it's always a surprise when someone *does* answer a request of mine.