. . . And Then More Crap

[omorka]

Not from Texas, this time, thankfully: Freedom Of Religion Considered Harmful

Um, to address the stated premise:

The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. In neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg .
- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785.

[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom... was finally passed,... a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination.
- Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, 1821.

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
- James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785

If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here [England] and in New England.
- Ben Franklin, "Essay on Toleration"

[N]o religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
- The Constitution of the United States of America, Article VI, Section 3

As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
- The Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the US Senate and signed into law by John Adams, June 10, 1797

Just in case anyone was unclear on the subject. Moreover, if they had meant to establish a Christian nation to the exclusion of other religions, especially the other two major Abrahamic faiths, which already had established communities in the 13 colonies, one imagines that they would have been explicit about it in the Constitution itself. Jefferson clearly intended for this to be a nation where Pagans and atheists could live unmolested; while his fellows might not have been quite so broad-minded, it is clear that at least the other monotheistic religions - Deism, Judaism, Islam, and the monotheistic forms of Hinduism, as well as varieties of Christianity that might well be ruled heresy by the orthodox churches - were meant by our Founders to be protected under law.

I know there are plenty of good, Gospel-following, tolerant Christians out there. But some days it seems like they're shouted down in favor of the Angry God on every street corner.

Comments

[princejvstin.livejournal.com]

Have you been following the dissection of Left Behind on Slacktivist (http://slacktivist.typepad.com/)?

Its clear to me from the fleecing of that book and what stands behind it is that there is a very real strain of intolerant Christianity which so badly likes to wave a finger at everyone else. There is an evil glee to their thought processes. "You'll see, you'll see one day when the Last Trump sounds, and then you'll be sorry! We will be happy...but you, you'll burn!"

Its a bastardization of Christianity crossed with the dark, deep urges of the tribalism of homo sapiens.

[awbryan.livejournal.com]

"Not from Texas, this time..." No, just from the town my aunt, gone these four months now to the Summerlands, called home. She detested Falwell all her life, and this piece of work is clearly one of his disciples. >_< >_<

The tolerant peoples of Christianity have heretofore been quiet, as we thought we were supposed to be. I'm becoming less enchanted with that attitude every day, as letting the bigots be loud seems to be tantamount to letting them take over. Benedict is trying to undo everything John Paul did about reconciliation between faiths and denominations, all the while insisting he's doing no such thing. As for these types, they really do think they're at war with all humanity that doesn't repeat their creed, and the only reason they don't wield arms is that tradition and experience demonstrate their counterproductivity. It doesn't bother them that their (claimed) Master told them not to use such tools, oh no. I don't know whether they know it or not, but these types lie their heads off every single day about "what America truly is". If someone told me in all seriousness that the "dominionist" movement were a demonic conspiracy I would have to at least seriously consider the possibility.

At heart, this is about xenophobia, not Christianity; and the Christianity *I* know is xenophilic. The most translated text in the world is the first chapter of Genesis; how then do you find (among these types) "King James Only" bigots who insist that the Divinity only speaks in English -- and in seventeenth century dialect??

[omorka.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've been enjoying Left Behind Fridays very much. Having a liberal Christian pick apart the bad theology is quite refreshing.

How anyone can talk with a straight face about taking the Bible literally and then cram bits and pieces of Ezekiel, Daniel, and Revelations together like that is beyond even my close-reading and reader-response skills.

[omorka.livejournal.com]

If someone told me in all seriousness that the "dominionist" movement were a demonic conspiracy I would have to at least seriously consider the possibility.

I suspect you've already read it, but just in case you haven't, bradhicks wrote a series of posts (http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/118585.html) suggesting something very close to that.

[awbryan.livejournal.com]

No, actually, I hadn't seen this before. Thanks! This will take some digestion. It certainly uses the fundamentalists' own style against them, even though the refutation requires believing to some degree on fundamentalism itself (and therefore isn't quite as effective on me).

Right: Salma Hayek as the lovely muse Serendipity in Dogma -- the kind of reverent irreverancy that would do a lot of Christians a lot of good

As I type, by some gift of Serendipity, a broadcast from Liberty University, the lair of Falwellism, has come up on ye boob toob. Having a natural allergy to megachurches, I normally flee from such; tonight I watch in morbid fascination. The first song (bastardized from gospel hymns; I can't bring myself to call the result a hymn) literally repeated over and over and over that "there's no god like Jehovah". So? It's a sign of insecurity to repeat it over and over... just like it's insecurity that leads them to oppress pagans. I don't have qualms about talking to Athena or Brigid; I know they and I and you and all of us serve the same God/dess. But it would scare this bunch to death, and for no reason but their own insecurity.

For fodder to discuss white and black magic, Serendipidity was really handing me door prizes tonight. The previous program was Moby Dick, with Patrick Stewart as Ahab. The Saint-Elmo's-fire scene was played impeccably; you could viscerally sense the spells Ahab was casting over his crew. It struck me as I watched that it was a perfect example of the Threefold Law; while Ahab and the crew temporarily took strength from the energies of the spell, it was fundamentally a death-spell, and necromancy can only lead to more death than is cast for. (Sadly, had Starbuck's advice been taken, the same spell could have saved all their lives.)

Seen in this sense, megachurches are massive karma dynamos...